Not exactly a dialogue --
The Spearhead: Dealing With The Reality On The Ground
In Mala Fide: Why Laura Wood and other conservatives and traditionalists just don’t get it
The Thinking Housewife: Does Society Need Men’s Rights? (read Max's contribution) and The Liberation of Men and The Man-Hater and the Frigid White Housewife.
Dr. Fleming has dismissed men's rights advocacy, though he has not yet, as far as I know, written an article explaining in detail. First one needs to distinguish PUAs from those who supporters of Men's Rights. There may be some men who are in both groups, but this is not true of all MRAs. Dr. Fleming seems to believe that being a MRA is equivalent to playing the victim. Instead, men need to do what a man needs to do. What concrete actions does he suggest? iirc, exercising authority within the household and avoiding women who are not good for them. This is not dissimilar from what Laura Woods has written.
I believe Dr. Fleming's conclusion is based on his contempt of movements in general as a means to achieving political ends. He prefers a more "natural" way of proceeding, which is grounded upon the individual reforming himself and being virtuous towards those around him. Building community from the ground, rather than imposing it from above using modern mass methods.
In view of the disadvantages to men offered by "Marriage 2.0" (the institution of marriage as it exists now--individual and social expectations, along with American divorce laws), some have suggested a marriage strike. Is this attitude absolute? For some, it is--they avoid marriage and maybe even women altogether, while others, those who are more inclined to the PUA lifestyle, are content with relationships with casual sex while avoiding any sort of commitment.
Do we want to claim that the men's rights movement is tainted by liberalism, and that those involved are only seeking radical autonomy? I think these are bad generalizations. Some participants at The Thinking Housewife, in their zeal to attack radical autonomy (or disordered self-love), have fallen into the error of mischaracterizing the motives of of MRAs (as can be evidenced by the responses of various people to the posts at THT). Some MRAs may follow or endorse a hedonistic lifestyle. But not all are--as far as I can tell, the movement as a whole does not seek specific ends other than to redress injustices. They seek seek reform of laws and courts--especially with respect to divorce, child custody, rape, sexual harassment, affirmative action and so on. Some may actually believe in radical equality, expecting men and women to share the same burdens. Others may be only using this as a rhetorical device against professed feminists to attack their consistency. We need to distinguish between means and ends -- what ends are MRAs seeking, and how do they wish to attain them? We should not be surprised if there is a wide range of ends. But MRAs appear to be united on addressing the injustices perpetuated against men by the system.
Still, it is not enough to "turn the laws back." I think the traditional conservatives and Christians are correct that long-lasting legal and social reform cannot be accomplished without a spiritual renewal. It may be that any men's rights movement is destined to be ineffective given the distribution of power in our society and the resulting resistance of the system to reform. (Power has never been in the hands of all men, but of the few.) But I can't fault these men for doing their best to educate other men about the bias of the system and seeking change, and despite the odds, they may be able to achieve some small victories, if they can find a few sympathetic judges and politicians.
(Idiocy and Hatred in the Men’s Rights Movement; Paul Elam, On Jury Nullification and Rape)
Male Authority and Domestic Violence
The Colonization of Male Space
Begun on December 15.
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